TR Propulsion Systems

[TheInsider]

Your guess is as good as mine. But reading between the lines it has something to do with a high end jet fighter engine tech using AI.
@Nilgiri has given his views on it. I concur with what he says.

There are many articles and YouTube news channels that claim that TF35K is in production. One of them is where Mete Yarar, claiming that prototype of a 38000lbf engine for Kaan has been designed and the parts production is progressing. How much credibility he has among defence buffs is another question. But as he is adamantly and openly claiming that Kaan engine is currently in the works, one has to think that there has got to be a “smoking gun” there.

We also know that Kale, RR, TEI. Ivchenko are all working together under a consortium to put together an indigenous engine for Kaan.

Propulsion Systems

I take our officials' words as the most reliable source of information and bet on 2028 as the year when we fly our Kaan with our domestic engine in trials. But I would expect it to happen even earlier as the world is heading towards even more troubled times and we want to be prepared in time for...

defencehub.live

So in spite of all the secrecy and not enough being known about the Kaan engine, with all above leaked information and the clear need of an indigenous engine for our TFX fighter, it is normal that there are patent applications pertaining to KAAN without making it too open. (Remember how we all had got the wind of TF6000, through patent application)

I heard similar things I even heard that the responsible party produced the casing of the prototype engine but there is a good time between production of initial parts and assembling the whole engine and running it. I heard the same 38000 lbf thrust claim it is probably based on detailed simulations. I'm confident that the project is moving from the design phase to the prototype production phase. I expect to see a detailed mock-up of the engine in IDEF 2025.

 

[moz68k]

@Yasar_TR what can be a '' smart framework for advanced tactical engine (s-fate)'' ? since it seems TÜBİTAK is getting lots of patents for softwares recently in this year


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Trademark Search

Turkish Patent and Trademark Office

www.turkpatent.gov.tr

The S- (Smart) prefix on all of these indicate that TÜBİTAK is building an ecosystem of homegrown software tools for defence including Computer-aided Engineering (CAE) and Software Development Kits (SDKs).

Likely intent of some of tools I see:
- S-RT-DevKit: Integration with GİS, TÜBİTAK's real-time operating system (RTOS).
- S-TDL: Tactical Data Link.
- S-Kinematics: Rigid-body physics simulations.
- S-Sensor: Algorithms for signal processing (Kalman, Bayes), probably for sensor fusion.
- S-Vision: Probably computer vision (CV) algorithms.
- S-Force: From the logo, we see a jet doing an s-shaped maneuver. Maybe this tool calculates load forces?
- S-CRAFT: Probably the integrated development environment (create->write code, run, analyze->simulate, fortify->test&verify, track->version control). For analysis and verification, there's likely a system modeler a-la Simulink, but tailored to work with all these frameworks. There must be a 3-D simulator component for testing CV and sensor fusion algorithms.
- S-FATE: This is likely the above-mentioned simulator component.

These are probably the tools that will be used to develop all the "smart" features of KAAN and other upcoming aircraft. Very exciting.

 

[Nilgiri]

Isn't getting publicly searchable patents for military top secret projects is a bit..., dumb? Even if all actual info available is just a few words on a webpage. I know America does it too. But what are they going to do? Sue China if they steal a military technology idea, based on your patent?

With suitable folks involved in the inner circle decision making....its no issue at all.

You basically figure out cogent process of evaluation regarding what unique IP your organisation generated, is generating and is likely to generate and comparmentalise these into what is best served with patent filing (and its advantages) compared to what you dont file as patents but keep as trade secrets.

Patent filing has a number of advantages, you get to license and earn things and also attract HR, collaboration and so on from related patent filers around the world.

Where the disadvantages start to outweigh any advantages (huge+unique+valuable IP and easy route to copy and get away with it instead of licensing from you etc compared to your infringement routes to prosecute then)....simple, keep such things as trade secret.

But it needs proper evaluation of pros and cons for each element of IP and even IP process. There is no complete absolute argument either way.

 

[Nilgiri]

Your guess is as good as mine. But reading between the lines it has something to do with a high end jet fighter engine tech using AI.
@Nilgiri has given his views on it. I concur with what he says.

There are many articles and YouTube news channels that claim that TF35K is in production. One of them is where Mete Yarar, claiming that prototype of a 38000lbf engine for Kaan has been designed and the parts production is progressing. How much credibility he has among defence buffs is another question. But as he is adamantly and openly claiming that Kaan engine is currently in the works, one has to think that there has got to be a “smoking gun” there.

We also know that Kale, RR, TEI. Ivchenko are all working together under a consortium to put together an indigenous engine for Kaan.

Propulsion Systems

I take our officials' words as the most reliable source of information and bet on 2028 as the year when we fly our Kaan with our domestic engine in trials. But I would expect it to happen even earlier as the world is heading towards even more troubled times and we want to be prepared in time for...

defencehub.live

So in spite of all the secrecy and not enough being known about the Kaan engine, with all above leaked information and the clear need of an indigenous engine for our TFX fighter, it is normal that there are patent applications pertaining to KAAN without making it too open. (Remember how we all had got the wind of TF6000, through patent application)

I mean to scale a TF from 10k to 35k like what is being talked about for a while now as just one example (I would think its likely the main driver in Turkish efforts currently).

How would one optimally do the simulations for it etc.

That is where sound algorithm formation for the dataset handling comes in, so it doesn't take the time it would have taken say some decades ago.

RnD<--->deep machine learning<---->"RnD primed" (just one example of early loop 3 being a branch to something RnD/IP wise in loop 1 or 2)

At same time, there is no easy way to mesh "AI" (essentially a bunch of nested+networked algorithms) overnight into these things with magic wand as AI does not understand big picture stuff well at all.

I am, for example, biased towards Monte Carlo sims (and a number of related variants) as they have occupied the higher order routines I am currently working on from experience formed..... for the last few years (for later HR to properly then take further when PW gets around to hiring larger department/consultancy for it).

So for a scaling of a TF from X to say Y roughly speaking needs standard simulation runs, then sensitivity analysis and then a look into optimisation of all of this (to reduce the dataset needed by filtering relative noise compared to what you want so the supercomputer doesnt have to spend X hours on the "average usual or bad".... for every quality minute of something important etc).

AI can automate a whole lot of this (saving time and thus money) if you design it well. Basically in effect "freezing in time" a jet engine operating under some condition, then filter/screen the exact subset of air molecules (or higher order factors involving them) you want to run the next sim in the progression. Then you cross evaluate with other kinds of operating conditions and you can scale things far quicker that way (essentially making bridges in shortest amount of time by finding the smallest distances to bridge in the "data field").

If you are able to get same quality results by running a thousand units instead of the earlier requirement of say a million, thats orders of magnitude advantage.

Like pebbles in a zen garden, you can arrange and check systematic patterns too that can help you filter (and get even better resolution with same computing power applied to less etc)....essentially thats how the AI "learns" if you prioritise this aspect in some routine it does in sandbox you allot to it (and watch its progress and measure its relevancy and so on)....it does the searches and filters better and better with less higher order "human" handholding over time.

 

[Kartal1]

Your guess is as good as mine. But reading between the lines it has something to do with a high end jet fighter engine tech using AI.
@Nilgiri has given his views on it. I concur with what he says.

There are many articles and YouTube news channels that claim that TF35K is in production. One of them is where Mete Yarar, claiming that prototype of a 38000lbf engine for Kaan has been designed and the parts production is progressing. How much credibility he has among defence buffs is another question. But as he is adamantly and openly claiming that Kaan engine is currently in the works, one has to think that there has got to be a “smoking gun” there.

We also know that Kale, RR, TEI. Ivchenko are all working together under a consortium to put together an indigenous engine for Kaan.

Propulsion Systems

I take our officials' words as the most reliable source of information and bet on 2028 as the year when we fly our Kaan with our domestic engine in trials. But I would expect it to happen even earlier as the world is heading towards even more troubled times and we want to be prepared in time for...

defencehub.live

So in spite of all the secrecy and not enough being known about the Kaan engine, with all above leaked information and the clear need of an indigenous engine for our TFX fighter, it is normal that there are patent applications pertaining to KAAN without making it too open. (Remember how we all had got the wind of TF6000, through patent application)

Mete Yarar is either hit or miss. He as a security analyzer is not a guy who I would trust. His power lies in the sources he has access to.

Now only time will tell if he told the truth or he was just doing propaganda. No matter what comment he made, judging by the latest developments I would say that if there's a smoke then there is a fire.