India AMCA Program

[Nilgiri]

Addendum to what I posted above:

Wing area vs MTOW for F-22 vs F-35 and HAL AMCA (provisional) for basic L/D comparison

i.e AMCA closer to ratio of F-22 here.

F-22 MTOW = 38 ton, wing area = 78, wingspan = 13.56, AR = 2.36
F-35 MTOW = 30 ton, wing area = 43, wingspan = 11, AR = 2.81
AMCA* MTOW = 25 ton, wing area = 55, wingspan = 11.13, AR = 2.25

Wave drag reduced by lower AR (supercruise at M 1.5+, given massive wave drag spike at mach 1 region), hence why F-22 AR compared to F-35

i.e F-22 more optimised to supersonic combat, F-35 subsonic and transonic.

http://www.stengel.mycpanel.princeton.edu/MAE331Lecture5.pdf

page 14

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA377310.pdf

page 19

 

[Gessler]

Looks like work on the DAS prototype has begun...

The proof of concept for the sensor fusion software looks like it'll only have 2 sensors to begin with. The system would probably be integrated on the DRDO A319 FTB first...

...not unlike how F-35's EODAS was first fitted on the B737 FTB:

 

[Radonsider]

With 2 sensors wouldn't it be hard? Maybe just for testing

 

[Gessler]

With 2 sensors wouldn't it be hard? Maybe just for testing

Yes - just to get the sensor fusion working. Eventually it should have 6 apertures.

 

[Nilgiri]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1776483159460515896

 

[Afif]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1776483159460515896

As you know my knowledge in this domain is primitive. But how does DRDO finish CDR before even having an actual workable prototype? Don't you first need a tech demonstrator like YF-22, X-35 and KAAN today?

 

[Nilgiri]

As you know my knowledge in this domain is primitive. But how does DRDO finish CDR before even having an actual workable prototype? Don't you first need a tech demonstrator like YF-22, X-35 and KAAN today?

This is essentially the CDR for a prototype and tech demonstrator.

Just like those 3 you mention all would have had CDR done before fabricating the prototype.

X-35 for example had its CDR ~ 1998, fabrication over two years and first test flight in 2000.

The F-35 TD could then use this earlier CDR to get going in parallel while the CDR for the F-35 series production was constructed with the design feedback from all of this (I think in 2006 or some such year, I forget the year).

But there always has to be a CDR completed at some stage for there to be fabrication and assembly.

 

[Windchime]

As you know my knowledge in this domain is primitive. But how does DRDO finish CDR before even having an actual workable prototype? Don't you first need a tech demonstrator like YF-22, X-35 and KAAN today?

You are misunderstanding what a CDR actually is. Look up what the term "design review" means in system engineering. In terms of military acquisition, a lot of the countries base their processes on the US DoD practice, so I suggest you reading following link

https://aaf.dau.edu/aaf/mca/cdr/

Also, you are getting it the other way around. Manufacturing of any prototype follows a design review, not vice versa. That design review is typically critical design review, since you need to have finished most critical designs to build a representative prototype. A TD vehicle is not a premise for fighter development.

 

[Nilgiri]

Australia mil aviation history featured a summary look into the HAL AMCA.

 

[Gessler]

Good news for AMCA:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1791506329565339880

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1791508456312324255

@Nilgiri

Information regarding the plan for the 50k-ton press was revealed in HAL's investors call.

 

[Spitfire9]

While there is no great urgency for AMCA Mk1 to get a licence production GE F414 deal arranged quickly, it is nearly a year since the MOU for such was announced and there is more urgency to get an engine deal finalised for Tejas Mk2 (and as a consequence, that will be the deal for AMCA Mk1, too). As time goes by India will simply have to accept whatever ToT GE is prepared to offer, won't it, to avoid delay in Tejas Mk2 being delivered to IAF?

Can a deal be done until the alleged Involvement of India in the Khalistan-related assassination is clarified? I wonder how long that will take.

What about the engine for AMCA Mk2 - is there any concrete progress on that?

 

[Zapper]

As time goes by India will simply have to accept whatever ToT GE is prepared to offer, won't it, to avoid delay in Tejas Mk2 being delivered to IAF?

I'm sure no country would be willing to offer ToT on the engine's hot core. Even during the Rafale offset deal, Snecma wanted to use their hot core instead. China spend billions in R&D, IP espionage, hiring Russian engineers for their WS series engine and it's unknown if the engine is capable to generate the required dry & wet thrust